"It is just ridiculous!"

That's Brad Fittler - not Geoff Toovey - talking about referees, and the attitude many in the NRL have towards them.

As debate swirls about what penalty the Fifita brothers, Andrew and David, should receive from the NRL for abusing the referee who recently officiated the Harold Matthews Cup grand final, Fittler questioned whether their behaviour was linked the way coaches, players, commentators and the media treat match officials in the NRL

The examples are numerous: from Toovey's infamous "ridiculous" rant last season in which he called for an investigation into the refereeing of a Manly match, to Canterbury captain James Graham and team-mates rounding on Gerard Sutton during the Good Friday clash with South Sydney, to NSW hooker Michael Ennis telling Sutton "you're getting overwhelmed by the crowd" after Beau Scott was penalised for a late tackle on Cameron Smith in Origin III.

"To yell at young kids and to yell at referees is just ridiculous and the fact that players are playing first grade and they are having this sort of behaviour is disgraceful, and they should be treated harshly," Fittler told fellow panel members, including Andrew Johns, on The Sunday Footy Show.

"It is just ridiculous. If you were to rate the Fifitas' behaviour in first grade towards referees, how would you rate them. Five out of 10, Joey?

"Well, is it our fault? Are we allowing them to think this behaviour is OK? I watch them play the ball, I watch them get up and abuse refs and look for penalties and do all of that. Why haven't we stamped that out of their behaviour in the NRL?"

Those who know the 24-year-old referee Tim Hannon, who took charge of the grand final of the NSWRL's Under-16s Harold Matthews Cup competition between Cronulla and Parramatta in May, are confident he will overcome the heated confrontation with the Fifita twins after a Penrith juniors A-grade game last Saturday, but many promising match officials are lost to the game each year because of such behaviour.

"We are getting a hard time as it is and then all of a sudden we have got NRL footballers having a shot at local junior referees. That is not going to help," a leading referees' official said.

"Recruiting isn't the problem, it is retention of referees. Guys who are pretty good referees and have been doing it for a few years, all of sudden they get abused and they say, 'I'm not refereeing anymore. I am going to do something else'.  It makes the squads of referees in local leagues and also in the NRL less than they should be."

Former leading referee and administrator Greg McCallum said players should not be allowed to have any involvement with junior teams, as David Fifita did by acting as an on-field trainer for St Patricks during Saturday's match, because of the confrontational attitude towards match officials in the NRL.

"First-grade players should not have a role in a junior league club where they are exposed like that. It is just madness and I am sure if the Cronulla club knew, they wouldn't support that either," McCallum said.

"There is this hackneyed phrase about every player is a role model, but there are some players out there who you wouldn't want to be role models. Nobody minds if a player turns up at a game, doesn't say a word and walks away. That is not being a great role model but by the same token it is not getting into trouble either.

"I just think that people have got to start taking responsibility for their actions. It is everyone else's fault but theirs. It is about their attitude and their attitude is wrong."

However, NSWRL Referees Association president Paul Simkins said NRL players and referees offering their support to junior football was usually a positive experience.

"We've all got a way we have got to be behave and you just hope that is observed," Simpkins said "No referee should cop that [abuse] from anyone, let alone a person involved in the game.

"The turnover of referees is one concern we have had for some time and we have been talking to the league about ways of improving that. They have been very supportive of what we are trying to accomplish, it is just that we need to change the culture of what people are doing on the ground."